House building

31 posts  |  Started 10 months ago by Roger  |   Latest reply from andrewbali  |  

1. Roger
   Member

   Aloha everyone,

   Having traveled to Bali in 1974 and now ready to leave this Hawaiian paradise for new vistas and
   being a new member to your informative and friendly site I would like to submit some questions
   regarding the following:

   1. Is it possible to buy property and build a house or does one need a Indonesian as partner?

   2. If an Indonesian is to be a partner can one enlist the services of an Indonesian attorney to be
   the entity who would satisfy such a requirement?

   3. If one were to set up a artist studio on residential property not as a business but for ones own enjoyment would one run into legal difficulties?

   4. Finally I wish to obtain a residential visa, has anyone gone through the procedure and what would be your advise to obtain such a visa?

   Thanks a bunch for your help.

   Roger

   Posted 10 months ago #

2. eagle
   Member

   Roger,
   If you want to post your email I will send you my article on buying real estate in Bali. Probably the safest way to enjoy security of residence is by lease. Foreigners are prohibited from owning land in Indonesia

   Posted 10 months ago #

3. Roger
   Member

   Eagle,

   Try email: designfab@earthlink.net

   Posted 10 months ago #

4. psheppo
   Member

   Hi Eagle
   I think you will find you are incorrect on the owning of property and land in Indonesia as my wife and myself have owned a house there for the last 6 years, we have the certificate in our possession in our country and both our names are on it, so maybe you should chech up on that.
   Regards psheppo

   Posted 9 months ago #

5. psheppo
   Member

   Hi Roger
   When we bought our property we used an Indonesian Notaris who was excellant but we could not get the papers translated so we found an aussie solicitor guy with an Indonesian wife who translatted all the paper work and as I said the Indonesian Notaris did every thing to a "t". We wer lucky as you do hear sad stories of people being ripped off, but you have to do your homework every time.

   Posted 9 months ago #

6. eagle
   Member

   Hi Psheppo,
   Simply, Sukarno passed 5 laws in 1960 governing foreign ownership. The first of these translated is pretty straightforward. Indonesian Law article 25 clause 1."Only Indonesian citizens have the right to own land" The legacy of more than 3 centuries of Colonial rule lead to the understandable fear that wealthy westerners would end up owning Indonesia and resulted in the above law. Also (what many do not want to hear) the common practise of borrowing Indonesian names to use on a sertifikat is technically illegal. refer. Ary B. Soenardi S.H. Unles the law has just changed hak milik (freehold) is not available to foreigners but hak pakai (right to use) is. There are problems comparing western ideas of ownership with Indonesi's. Hope I haven't opened too big a can of worms but the best way to check validity of your title is to try and get a small bank loan against it. I have no idea about the law if you have married an Indonesian.

   Posted 9 months ago #

7. psheppo
   Member

   Hi Eagle
   I believe that the law was again changed by Soharto ( 1989) as too many Indonesians were selling up everything when the foreigners went home.
   We have no need for a loan but I will try it as we have an account with a bank in Kuta for 7 years so why not find out.
   I am not married to an Indonesian but have heard all these stories before, I will go to the bank and let you know the out come as we will be back there in about 5 weeks so it will be interisting to find out.
   Your sound like a Legal Eagle.
   Talk soon psheppo.

   Posted 9 months ago #

8. eagle
   Member

   Sorry I am no legal eagle but i took an interest in Indonesian law when I started hearing horrific real estate stories in Bali. Almost every trip i continue to hear of ownership problems from bule who simply and understandably expected the professionalism in their home country would be similar in Indonesia.
   cheers
   Eagle
   ps I'll be in Bali for most of June.

   Posted 9 months ago #

9. disini
   Member

   Hello...I too own a house and land in Indonesia...on my certificate my Indonesian sponsor is listed as my mortgagee...if and when he can pay the very large amount of money that is written on our contract, then he owns my house....if he pays me the money that is stated I'd be a very happy girl!!
   As for a notaris...I used one that was recomended by a long time resident...and not one in any way associated with the real estate company. By the way you'd be hard pressed to get a loan here...non residents are not given them...only Commonwealth bank will do.

   Posted 9 months ago #

10. psheppo
    Member

    Hi Eagle
    We wil be in Bali from the 24th June to 1st August would love to catch up give me a call on +628123871640 in between those dates would love to buy you a beer and pick your brains.

    psheppo

    Posted 9 months ago #

11. psheppo
    Member

    Hi Disini
    Yep I think we are all in the same boat (about if they came up with the money) but if our Indo friends did I would be highly suprised as well as they only seem to spend all thier money on ceremonies and family support

    Posted 9 months ago #

12. shorty
    Member

    foreigners CANNOT own land in indonesia. yes there are many schemes to try and get around this...nominee names, irrevocable powers of attorney, 'company title'......

    the ri government obviously knows of these schemes and could at any point declare them invalid.

    why go down this road when leasing land is perfectly legal, and gives you sovereign rights for the lease period. you can retain 'ownership' for 50+ years.

    as a final warning, 'freehold' as we know it (australia) does not exist for foreigners.

    Posted 9 months ago #

13. shorty
    Member

    ps.
    my experience is that the more you try to 'massage' the system, the more expensive and ongoing the massage fee.

    if a dispute arises over a 'dodgey/expedient/ deal under ri law, you'll lose.

    Posted 9 months ago #

14. ripeha
    Member

    I agree with Shorty and Psheppo. Especially regarding disputes.

    Posted 9 months ago #

15. eagle
    Member

    PSHEPPO will SMS but I go home to OZ on 24 June so time is really tight. Always time for a Bintang tho'I'm in Legian.

    Posted 9 months ago #

16. psheppo
    Member

    Eagle
    It would be good to catch up but if we dont there is always next time in december from 26 to 2nd Feb maybe see you then and yes there is always time for a bintang or 3

    Posted 9 months ago #

17. Robdog
    Member

    Hi Sheppo this is Rob ( tattoo's ) from Perth ( Roy and Ewans esky )I just got back on Saturday.Sorry this does not relate to the users questions.

    Posted 9 months ago #

18. Robdog
    Member

    Oh yeah I am hoping to get back before the 1st of August as Sticky Micky is marring Mel on the 1st. So I will see ya at the Esky !!

    Posted 9 months ago #

19. psheppo
    Member

    Robdog
    How are you mate, we will miss you again as we are in Bali from the 24th June to the 1st August, but will be back over xmas for 6 weeks so maybe we can catch up then, all the best mate.
    psheppo

    Posted 9 months ago #

20. RayC
    Member

    I also own a villa in Seminyak, with my ex Indonesian partner (now Aussie). We got her cousin to go nominee for us so we have freehold lodged in his name but with a contract that says he cannot do anything with the property or sell it. It works for us, and freehold title in Seminyak is becoming quite hard to get so therefore is increasing in value (current economic climate excluded!).
    And sorry, I am not there at the moment so unfortunately cannot meet anyone for beers :(

    Posted 9 months ago #

21. BkT
    Member

    Hey RayC thanks for the info, good to hear a successful story, Someone brought up leasing land being the way to go but what are you left with at the end of your 50year lease? Nothing for your next generation. Legally there is a risk but I think as long as you go through the right channels and have people here you can trust its worth it.

    RayC how much am I looking at paying to get a contract drawn up, also who do you recommend as far as a notaris goes and are there any extra hidden costs involved?

    Posted 9 months ago #

22. RayC
    Member

    Hi BkT, we went with a private developer in Seminyak. He found us some freehold land and we had a villa custom built to fit. We paid for a package that included the land, house and furnishings and it was all ready for us to move into. We have been very happy with the integrity and personal service of our developer. The architects and all of the building team have been so helpful too.

    I can recommend both our developer and a very good notaris. Perhaps it would be better if you email me at rayconnew@iinet.net.au

    Posted 9 months ago #

23. shorty
    Member

    BkT...i recommended the leasing option. yes, inheritance is a problem, but no more so than using a nominee name. on the death of the nominee the certificate passes to his/her heir(s) not yours. no problems if it's your spouse.

    of course developers and estate agents will assure you of the title security...they want to flog property!

    as i originally posted, foreigners cannot own land.

    Posted 9 months ago #

24. RayC
    Member

    Shorty, with respect, we nominated my partner's Indonesian sister should anything happen to our chosen nominee (though I can't quite remember the name given to this position).

    Posted 9 months ago #

25. shorty
    Member

    Ray

    no problem, you've retained the certificate (legally) within the family so my comments/observations don't really apply in your case. (just don't piss off the inlaws!!)

    my comments/observations are directed to the people who don't have family connection, who 'buy' a nominee, sign supposedly 'irrevocable' power of attorney, extend a mortgage to the nominee, or try one of the myriad schemes to supposedly get freehold title.

    in these cases your security of tenure is less secure than leasing, as you do not have a legal basis to fall back on in case of dispute.... foreigners cannot own land....

    i go back to my original post.

    ....my experience is that the more you try to 'massage' the system, the more expensive and ongoing the massage fee.

    if a dispute arises over a 'dodgey/expedient/ deal under ri law, you'll lose.

    Posted 9 months ago #

26. psheppo
    Member

    Hi All
    Can someone inform me on leasing, like the amount per are, how long and can you get extensions.
    Also how do you go about leasing? do you do it off the government or an Notaris?

    psheppo

    Posted 8 months ago #

27. shorty
    Member

    see post #5 psheppo.......

    Posted 8 months ago #

28. disini
    Member

    I guess what it comes down to is how much you want to live on Bali...how far your willing to trust and how much you can afford to lose?? I do not feel completely bulletproof but as life has no guarantees I guess day to day is a good way to go!

    Posted 8 months ago #

29. andrewbali
    Member

    Simply as been mentioned over and over Foreigners CANNOT own LAND FREEHOLD its impossible no mater what you say or have been told in your purchase you cannot own land its that simple If you believe you own it IN YOUR NAME i almost guarantee you have a contract thats been written up to make you happy. INDONESIAN citizens are only allowed to own land here or freehold.

    Anyone can lease land here and build on it i have never heard of a 50 year lease and understand the longest is 30 years once the lease is up you re negotiate the land or you simply walk away with what u want that u put there... if you want to take away your house brick by brick you are entitled to. The cost of setting up teh contract is usually a percentage of teh value of teh contract with a Notaris - Its up to you on how you set that up some people declare a lover value of teh contract to avoid the fees but everything is negotiable here. I have a 5 year lease on my house and every time my owner needs money i dont lent it to him as you know you will never see it back - i simply ad another year on my contract. Ive now upped teh contract to 8 years and everyones happy any my rents paid up for another 3 years now.

    Some people dont realise but when you do up a contract for any amount of years you are required to pay the full amount for all the years up front unless you have pre negotiated yearly payments and then usualy you pay a premium on the rent for its cheaper to pay everything up front.

    IN Answer to your question Rodger per are Prices vary depending on the area but in Legian/Seminyak you can rent land for aprox 3-4 million an are over a 25 year lease still.

    Hope i have not ruffled any feathers aor left anyone dissiluioned but as an expat thats lived here long enough i have heard it all annd seen the sad faces.

    Posted 7 months ago #

30. willem
    Member

    Hi to andrew Bali,
    Thanks for your comment. I am just a new member and been to bali 2 times. In oktober i will come to bali again and have a girlfriend there. I am retiering next year so than i wil lease a house for a couple of years near Semingyak if it is possible. Thats what i am itent to do. So if you have more information of lease that is affordable in this area i apreciate your comment.

    Thanks
    Greetings Willem

    Posted 7 months ago #

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