In 2007 Indonesia passed a new investment law including article 33 which
will impact on buying real estate. Essentially this law declares all contracts
Where investors use nominees (invest under the name of others) to be null and void. i.e. it never happened. Some agents claim this only applies to companies but the intent of the law is much broader.
Interesting times ahead for this structure of purchase and how the courts will interpret them. As land prices continue to skyrocket expect there to be more to be more legal challenges to "ownership"
investing in real estate/nominee
12 posts | Started 1 year ago by eagle | Latest reply from eagle |
| Tags: purchase , nominee , real estae , |
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Posted 1 year ago #
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amazing isn't it eagle.
foreigners can not own land.
enterprising smarties come up with nominees, powers of attorney, mortgage documents.......versions of company title, to give bules a sense of title security.
ri knows this, at at any given time can rescind, declare null and void, wotever, any of these bullshit arrangements. let's assume your nominee duds you, you go to court...you're stuffed, it's his land. mortgagee in possession? good luck - conspiracy to divert?
leasing is legal for foreigners. at least if there's a dispute you've a valid claim.
the skyrocket? my feeling is that it's reached it's zenith as is rapidly falling to earth. oversupply, shonky titles and approvals, poor infrastructure support...
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hey shorty skyrockets go up then down. Just wait until an Ozzie dies of rabies, legionaires or tampered arak. On the other hand a lot of the new 3000 WA gas workers might start dumping some of their big salaries in Bali when they take their free flight from the mines.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hey Eagle, lets not forget, Ozzies did die.....in the bombings and look whats happened, meaningless security checks at carparks? Rabies? still dozens of scungy looking ownerless mutts running around down here at Ungasan and as for legionaires, the last two hotels we stayed at, Kuta Discovery & Lovina's supposed No1 hotel, ( did'nt even want to remember the name )i had to pull out the air con filters as the a/c's stunk and were well under maintained. With a road system that is a disgrace and the majority of locals who think they can drive safely, why would anyone wanna come here for a holiday, look at how the locals treat their own island, walk out the back of any restuarant in Ubud and look over the side, see all the rubbish they've been throwing down in the rivers for years, even an Ubud family who have moved into their own residence whilst undergoing renovations at their restuarant, look out the back of their place, its a shame job, Balinese can easily be compared to the Australian Aborigines the way they treat their dogs and dump their rubbish, supposed to be at one with the land, what a load of ? With the cheap airfares around now, Asia is open and far better places than Bali, try Vietnam, unbelievable beaches, nightlife, golf courses, food and cold beer...and guess what, foreigners dont have to pay double to get into the GWK park, or triple like i did to get into the Bali zoo, 283,000 rups for 3 adults n 3 kids then 230,000 rups for little ol me, cant believe we moved here? Don't mean to offend anyone here by the way.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Australians are no more important than any other nationality. the impact of the bombings was far greater on the Indonesian victims and their families.
your posts (this + telkomvision) seem to indicate you live in bali. if it's such a shit place move to Vietnam.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Well that’s an intelligent response Shorty,
"if its such a shit place move to Vietnam"??
This is your response after I’ve passed comment on some subjects that affect both locals and tourists a like on this so called island paradise.What, you think its OK for for people to suffer at the hands of this rabies disease that has killed 118 local people since it was first noted in late 2008, the last 4 having died in the past two weeks? You think its OK that the Govt drag their heels at these unnecessary deaths ? Is that what you think Shorty?
What, you think its OK that only recently a reported 12 tourists suffered a form of pneumonia from the world renown Legionella strain causing the Aust Govt to notify the Balinese officials with regards to which area and hotels these tourists stayed at, Legionnaires disease also kills Shorty.
What, you think the road system on this island is acceptable to all users Shorty? I’ve been here two months and have witnessed five accidents, two involving cars, one where a Suzuki APV over turned on Jln Bypass Ngurah Rai near Nusa, the others involving mopeds stacking due to bad driving and potholes, so Shorty, you think that’s OK ?
And finally Shorty, lets not forget the rubbish build up in the waterways around the island and also where I mentioned in Ubud where this water and rubbish houses the breeding grounds for the mosquito born Dengue fever which has produced 3,138 cases up to last November, resulting in five deaths……..
So what Shorty, you think that’s OK ?
And the best you could come up with was….
“if its such a shit place move to Vietnam”!
Yeh, well, short on some things it appears!
Posted 1 year ago # -
i've not said the problems are 'ok'. of course the things you raise (and others) need attention.
i'll rephrase the “if its such a shit place move to Vietnam” - if these things get at you, why do you stay in bali?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Dear Col,
The title of this article is investing in real estate. My intention was to air the continuing problem of bules entering into nominee arrangements.
You have dragged this topic to include a mish mash of your grizzles about Bali.
Just post another topic wherein you can expose your negative observations.
Seriously, if you find great difficulties in adjusting to your new location (you won't be the first or the last) help in many forms is available.Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi Eagle, Hi Shorty....Appreciate what you just said about the title of this article Eagle, but i was responding to your comments in your last posting, (Post #3), "just wait till an Ozzie dies of rabies".
Irespect that you think they are "grizzles" about Bali, but believe i was stating the obvious as has been previously written on this site by others also, probably in the hope that something will be done about these issues. It may be that Bali is being strangled by over development and as a result is lacking in infrastructure which leads to these issues here, as one local told me, "the money comes in to Bali then leaves to Jakarta".
As for "negative observations", are you for real?
Is that what you really think they are?? If i did'nt know any better, based on that comment i'd think that your just some RI govt hack putting your two bobs worth in, in the hope that these issues will just fade away.
I'm sure your not, it may be that you just need to get out a bit.
Anyway, have read some of both of your other posts and will continue to do so, keep up the good work.
P.S. I gotta say Eagle, you've just floored me with that comment "negative observations".........i doubt you'd find help in any form if you were to express that attitude to the locals who have lost loved ones thru what you've just labelled "negative observations".
Posted 1 year ago # -
Back to the original title of this topic... I think what people are doing now in regards to a safe nominee agreement, is what's called "hak pakai atas hak milik", which is basically a lease agreement on top of the freehold nominee agreement, that way if a problem does arise from the freehold nominee agreement, you can fall back to the leasehold agreement. Ask your notaris about this.
Posted 1 year ago # -
peter re the hak pakai+ agreements. they are still attempts to get around the ri property laws.
western mentality wants something akin to freehold. we are not used to leasing land.
agents,developers and smarties market properties as freehold. it doesn't exist for foreigners in ri, no matter what 'hak' you call it.
in larger developments, you're probably buying a company share which gives you exclusive rights to a condo/villa whatever. this relates to Company title in oz - not freehold.
as i've said before, leasing is legal. why go thru the expense and subterfuge to create dubious 'freehold' title which is meaningless.
eagle, i've read your following post explaining the complexities/pitfalls of hak pakai+.
why even go there?
look around at the rampant development. no matter what the developers/agents say, title security is not a problem, nor is it inhibiting factor.
thinking of buying into bali? sit back and wait. development and pricing is outstripping demand.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Peter you are correct. The more complicated title Hak Pakai atas Hak Milik is a government sanctioned right of use over freehold and is an encumbrance to the hak milik (freehold) title. The maximum duration is for 25 years with extensions which must be applied for 3 years in advance. I have never heard an agent advising this but make sure you remember or lose the right to extend. Basically this means the foreigner has the right to the use of the land which remains in the hands of the local. Renewals come at at a cost which most likely will not be or not be able to be explained to you by the sales agent/PPAT. Presently it is 10% of the government valuation of the property, currently well below actual value, but when you are looking at what it could be in 22 years time (i.e. if you wanted to extend your 25 year right) it could be anybody’s guess. Due to the complexities of Indonesian law and that many consider it to be inexact it could still be a big worry that if the underlying nominee arrangement was shonky the HPHM could also be. Two things to remember rarely mentioned by those who lubricate the real estate industry; an irrevocable power of attorney is not recognised if it applies to real estate and your 'nominee arrangement' may die along with the nominee. My only agenda is that I want people to be careful.
Posted 1 year ago #
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