Land Rights

7 posts  |  Started 2 years ago by shorty  |   Latest reply from BenJohnson  |  

1. shorty
   Member

   Bali is rapidly becoming 'expatised'. vast areas are being converted from productive agricultural land to suburbia full of mcmansions. the concommitant water, electric, sewage problems are immense.

   there is no way that inbound tourism numbers can grow at a similar rate to villa/bed increases.

   the majority of expat owners are comparatively rich europeans.

   a concern is that they will move on to the next flavour of the month destination, maybe vietnam, antarctica, who knows. besides, for their kids bali will be passe. they will be looking for their own island of the gods.

   jump forward a few years, vast areas of empty suburbia, land starved and culturally disposessed locals.

   should ri look now at putting in place some form of underlying native title? what land tenure rules/zoning etc would you put in place to protect bali?

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. Hippiechick
   Member

   This is an important issue raised by Shorty - well done. I share your concerns, especially since I have the perspective of 35+ years of visiting the island. The development is devastating and it is harder to find the paradise that attracts people here in the first place, an example is Nusa Dua and Tanjing Benoa - you could be anywhere and there is little of "Bali" to be seen. I remember when Kuta was an area of about one block now it sprawls in both directions. It is up to the Balinese people to decide and therein lies the problem (I think).

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. bele
   Member

   To start with, there is already some land rights of a sort. None of the land that these villas are built on is owned by the bules. Don't care what they think they've got, but at the end of the day, the land is still owned by Indonesians.

   Any non-Indonesian who builds a house in Indonesia should be aware of the risks in doing so. ONe of those risks is that at some point in the future, they may lose the land or the right to live on it. I think a fair percentage of these people are aware of this, but many are not, or they are in denial that it is a possibility.

   The impact of the baby boomers in developed countries world wide 50 years ago was that lots of schools were built and surbubia sprawled. Many of those schools are now empty or closed as the population at that end of the demographic dwindles.

   The current boom is in retirement living, which is what is behind a fair portion of the places built in Bali. Give it another 20 years, and that generation will be starting to decline. At some point in the future, there will be an excess of villas and houses, prices will drop perhaps. Co-incidentally many of the structures going up now will just about have had their day by that time, and so perhaps it will be time to demolish?

   One of the questions will be whether you could revert back to farming. For a start, that is a skill being lost in Indonesia as younger generations move toward higher education and city life. Also, these areas will no doubt have infrastructure, shops, hospitals etc that have been build up around the housing demand. Can you plonk a rice paddy back into that scene?

   So, interesting topic shorty. Certainly food for thought for anyone "investing" in the Bali real estate market.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. shorty
   Member

   bele as you say, there is a kind of land rights with the foreign ownership laws, yet as hippiechick points out this hasn't stopped rampant overdevelopment. so called zoning 'laws', green belts etc are ignored.

   we know this, but it's we westerners who exploit it, and in doing so are responsible for destroying the paradise we seek.

   the laws are obviously inadequate.

   i guess i started the post to suss out the problems already raised, but more importantly to see if the collective baliblog intelligence could come up with possible solutions.

   for example, bele sets a challenge...' Can you plonk a rice paddy back into that scene?....'

   let's assume the answer is 'yes, we want to'. any thoughts on how could this be done? this applies to existing development.

   how would you handle future projects?

   hippiechick says 'It is up to the Balinese people to decide and therein lies the problem (I think).'

   maybe they need our help and input.... after all, we've created the problem.

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. bele
   Member

   Shorty, you say "let's assume the answer is 'yes, we want to'. any thoughts on how could this be done? this applies to existing development."

   Let's not. I can tell you that my Indonesian children have no skills in farming rice paddies and neither do I. Who would want the rice paddy? who would look after it? It's akin to suggesting that parts of large cities should be returned to farm land and that your kids can look after the farm. Could you imagine that happening in LA or New York? Or Melbourne?

   Who says that returning to an agricultural society is the way to go?

   Rather than look to the 'old' ways as something to go back to, Balinese can only move forward. There is a very strong culture and sense of identity which I hope will be the 'glue' that holds things together. I hope that Bali and Indonesia as a whole moves towards skilling up in areas other than tourism and cheap factory labour.

   As to what the Balinese are allowing to be done to their island. There has been quite a lot of action in trying to get some control over the number of villas being thrown up (pun intended). But it is a big job with creaking beurocracy and endemic corruption. Banjars must be strong. Some have banned the 'sale' of land to foreigners and will only allow lease. I think that is a good start.

   I could rave on a bit more but that's enough for now

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. shorty
   Member

   bele i'm not suggesting that a return to agriculture is the way go.

   perhaps a better question would have been what do you do with the residential/hotel development when in some areas it becomes unused/deserted/a ghost town?

   for example, it's already happened/happening in candi dasa and lovina. are there ways to return it to some kind of productivity?

   i think you've struck on a key...' banjars must be strong....' maybe this a way to bypass/minimise the bureaucracy and corruption.

   mine only allows a lease for a single, non commercial villa. there is an unstated limit on the numbers of land conversions.

   i'm not trying to recreate a 1960/70/past bali. i want to see balinese in charge of their future. what can you do to ensure your kids have a better chance of being the driver, not passengers.

   if you know and foresee the problems,raving's pointless. you only get the shits and solve nothing.

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. BenJohnson
   Member

   I hate to be the one who brings you bad news. I have learned through long experience that there is NOTHING you can do to save paradise. When I was young, I lived in San Diego, California. Young people could afford to rent a bungalow right on the beach and surfers could find plenty of parking on local streets. Because it was so wonderful, people moved to San Diego in the '70's and '80's until the roads were always clogged and rents went through the roof.

   I moved north to a surf town of Encinitas,California where rents were low and the beaches uncrowded. Then I saw the same influx of people. I won a seat on the local City Council (which controls zoning). The City Council changed the zoning to keep the small town atmosphere. This only made the town more desirable and land prices skyrocketed. When land prices are high, rich builders and lawyers come to town and fight to build more and higher buildings on the best land. They fight in the courts, they fight to elect their dupes, and they spread propaganda in the newspaper. Where there is a chance to make BIG money, paradise is always destroyed. Rich people and rich corporations always win when the stakes are high.

   I've seen it happen in Hawaii, in the Caribbean, in parts of Mexico and all over the South Pacific. My rule is this: when you find paradise, enjoy it to the fullest now. In the future it WILL be gone and there's nothing you can do about it.

   Posted 2 years ago #

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